Help talk:Citation Style 1/Archive 24

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Video Help talk:Citation Style 1/Archive 24

Undangan memorial Wadewitz

Recently a discussion on Talk: Jane Austen has revolved around the fundamental issues of the template format. The original version of the article from the 10 years originally had begun in the MLA Handbook format (without templates, see below) by Wadewitz late, and it was obviously his strong desire (as evidenced by his comments in the reference section) that MLA format is maintained. However, the regrettable situation arises: since Wadewitz died, 5-6 editors have edited articles in different citation format (or even "freestyle format", perhaps). Manual editing produces an inconsistent, inconspicuous reference section that I describe as a "steaming mess".

I strongly support the use of terms of reference to create consistency in formatting in any article, and to provide the many benefits of COINS.

However, none of these advantages are available to editors who want to edit in MLA (or APA, or Chicago/Turabian, or Bluebook) that are clearly supported under WP: CITEVAR.

WP: CITEVAR not with extensions means that template options like should be created, but I suggest that the proper way to show respect and respect to all editors works in a very common format (outside Wikipedia) will be to create them. The reason why this format is rare on Wikipedia is because the template option for them is completely unavailable. If these template options already existed, the "chaotic mess" in Jane Austen will never happen.

(<-) I also spent 10 or 15 minutes looking for the incident and have not found it yet. I will keep looking. In the meantime, I am in this case obviously wrong, though (I think) somewhat humane. But still wrong. Lingzhi? Ãƒ, (talk) 02:35, August 25, 2016 (UTC)

You do not need special permissions to create new templates or edit the template sandbox code. Go for it! And all template code is available via the Edit link or View Source at the top of the page. You may start at Module: Foot Record. - Jonesey95 (talk) 05:17, 24 August 2016 (UTC)

@Lingzhi: Let's assume that you have ref like & lt; ref & gt; Smith, 101 & lt;/ref & gt; and you want to link to a long form template. There are two things to do here, and they are not limited by the editing protection of the template.

The first thing to do is to create a link inside the ref, it can be as simple as & lt; ref & gt; [[# Smith | Smith]], 101 & lt;/ref & gt; but since there may be a section in the article titled "Smith", it's good to add something different, like the letter "ref" - so you might use & lt; ref & gt; [[# refSmith | Smith]], 101 & lt;/ref & gt; .

The second thing to do is to create an anchor in a long form quote template, this may be {{citation}} , {{cite book}} or one of those other. Use the parameter ref = for that, ie | ref = refSmith .

You can see it in action in Wikipedia: Sandbox . You can create a template for the [[# refSmith | Smith]] , but that does not matter. - Red rose64 (talk) 10:12, August 24, 2016 (UTC)

@Lingzhi: Further up: I've found that you can do so using an existing template, see Wikipedia: Sandbox . Here, we have & lt; ref & gt; {{harvnb | Smith | loc = 101}} & lt;/ref & gt; in the text, and | ref = {{harvid | Smith}} in the citation template. The two templates used here are {{harvnb}} and {{harvid}} ; note that I do not use the year parameter on one of them, and with {{harvnb}} I use | loc = than | p = to press "p." which should have been included. - Red rose64 (talk) 11:29, August 24, 2016 (UTC)

@Redrose64: I think short MLA can be falsified using existing | loc = in sfn, plus text for this year (since sfn treats everything as a string), plus and ref = {{harvid}} except for hard coded coma in Module: Footnotes (in args.location). See the first quote in my sandbox for a fake example. Lingzhi? (Speak) 12:15, August 24, 2016 (UTC)

For a long time I wanted to restructure the code that makes up the parts of the other constituents into a recognizable part. Maybe this is a thorn under the saddle.

To help me understand what kind of changes are required, I hack the sandbox so | mode = mla controls some of the clearest differences between cs1 and mla, date and placement editor and style, for {{book excerpts}} :

Author; Author2; Author3 (2016). "Chapter". In Editor; Editor2. Title . Location: Publisher. pp.Ãƒ, 12-34. CS1 maint: Additional text: editor list (link)

- Flowing monks (talk) 11:15, August 24, 2016 (UTC)

Urutan nama depan/belakang:

Last1, First1; Last2, First2; Last3, First3 (2016). "Bab". Di EditorLast1, EditorFirst1; EditorLast2, EditorFirst2. Judul . Lokasi: Penerbit. pp.Ãƒâ€š 12-34.

- Flowing monks (talk) 00:36, August 25, 2016 (UTC)

I have some quick thinking about MLA, and maybe these are items that have not arrived as this effort continues. If so, I apologize for releasing the gun.

At least a newer version, his style specifically removes URLs and assumes that anyone can search for sources online. Of course we can link to sources in our citations because our formatting explicitly includes hyperlinks while MLA is designed for printing. I assume we want to continue the practice of linking items, and may continue to insert file types just as we do now.
Also, MLA will add an intermediate title, something like "Print" or "Web" to the end of the quote. For online sources, "Web" will be followed by an access date. If it is an online reprinted source, it is "Web. & Lt; republisher & gt;. & Lt; access date & gt;." Maybe a bit of coding to assume that this would be "Print" unless a link is given when it would be "Web", but we need to use | type = or other new parameters to allow editors to override this for DVDs and other media.

ImzadiÃƒ, 1979 Ãƒ, -> 01:42, August 25, 2016 (UTC)

I would think that adding hyperlinks when resources are available online is a convenience for readers that there is no case for failing to do that in our quote. MLA is designed for print jobs (including instructions on margin, double line spacing and the section name Cited Works), so we have to adapt to some extent. The essence of offering a long MLA style quote is for the reader to be familiar with the style it does not find it rumble when they see the citation in the CS1 standard style, not exactly mimic the print format in the online encyclopedia. Therefore I can see a small dot in adding "Web" or "Print" - which tells the readers of the printed article that it is worth searching online or not. In the Wikipedia article, it is definitely clear that if there is a hyperlink, it is available online, and if not, it is not. --RexxS (talk) 02:11, August 25, 2016 (UTC)

It seems like I would be a bit dishonest adding the ability to generate quote code with | mode = mla and does not actually produce what MLA format their quotes say. That said, I've seen something that makes it seem as though they've dropped the media indicator of the 8th edition published this year, so that's probably something unique for the 7th edition that's now being replaced. ImzadiÃƒ, 1979 Ãƒ, -> 15:22, August 26, 2016 (UTC)

Year and original edition:

Author; Author2; Author3 (2016) [1920]. "Chapter". In Editor; Editor2. Title (issue 2). Location: Publisher. pp.Ãƒ, 12-34. Ãƒ, CS1 maint: Additional text: editor list (link)

- Flowing monks (talk) 09:48, 25 August 2016 (UTC)

Translator:

Author; Author2; Author3 (2016) [1920]. "Chapter". In Editor; Editor2. Title . Translated by Translator; Translator2 (issue 2). Location: Publisher. pp.Ãƒ, 12-34. Ãƒ, CS1 maint: Additional text: editor list (link)

- Translates bhikkhus (talk) 13:49, 25 August 2016 (UTC)

Contributors:

Contributors (2016) [1920]. Introduction. Title . By Author; Author2; Author3. Editor; Editor2, eds. Translated by Translator; Translator2 (issue 2). Location: Publisher. pp.Ãƒ, 12-34. Ãƒ, CS1 maint : Additional text: editor list (link)

Contributors (2016) [1920]. Introduction. Title . By Author; Author2; Author3. Editor; Editor2, eds. (Issue 2). Location: Publisher. pp.Ãƒ, 12-34. Ãƒ, CS1 maint : Additional text: editor list (link)

Contributors (2016) [1920]. Introduction. Title . By Author; Author2; Author3. Translated by Translator; Translator2 (issue 2). Location: Publisher. pp.Ãƒ, 12-34.

Contributors (2016) [1920]. Introduction. Title . By Author; Author2; Author3 (2nd ed.). Location: Publisher. pp.Ãƒ, 12-34.

Contributors (2016). Introduction. Title . By Author; Author2; Author3 (2nd ed.). Location: Publisher. pp.Ãƒ, 12-34.

Contributors (2016). Introduction. Title . By Author; Author2; Author3. Location: Publisher. pp.Ãƒ, 12-34.

- Removing a monk (talk) 11:07, September 1, 2016 (UTC)

Break

@Trappist monk, RexxS, and Lingzhi: I do not know anything about templates and have not read the above, so maybe this is not feasible, but I want to see the converted template so we can just put punctuation in where we need it. Currently, I write manually:

John Rawls, Theory of Justice , Cambridge: Harvard University Press, 1971, 1.
and afterwards: Rawls 1971, 2.
Chantal Zabus, "The Body of the Assembled in Text and Context of Africa," in Merete Falck Borch (ed.), Body and Voice: Representational and Representational Strengths in Colonial and Postcolonial Studies , New York: Rodopi, 2008, 1.
and next: Zabus 2008, 2.
Nicky Woolf, "The Stingray document offers a rare insight into police and FBI surveillance", The Guardian , August 26, 2016.

When I edit with people using templates, I can copy their styles manually, though it leads to internal inconsistencies with newspapers (the date after the name if there is a byline, and the date at the end otherwise it is frustrating to increment inconsistent inconsistencies just to copy the template style). But if people edit articles where I've added manual citations in the style above, they can not copy my style (or other) using templates; they have to do it manually because the templates are very limiting.

Beradaptasi {{cite journal}} untuk menggunakan mla:

Penulis; Author2; Author3 (2016). "Judul". Jurnal . Volume (Masalah): 12-34.

- Flowing monks (talk) 12:12, August 27, 2016 (UTC)

If I make a tangential comment but see how this is formatted above the MLA style, it reminds me of a small query associated with {{cite magazine}}. The template uses a capital letter "Vol." when I think it should really lower it as your MLA example does not. Maybe there is a small change for upcoming module updates? ImzadiÃƒ, 1979 Ãƒ, -> 14:01, August 29, 2016 (UTC)

Compare this; one of which is {{cite magazine}} (cs1) and the other is {{citation}} (cs2):

"Title". Magazine . Vol.Ãƒ, 23 no.Ãƒ, 4. Archived from the original in 2016-08-29 . Retrieved 2016-08-29 . Ãƒ,

"Title", Magazine , vol.Ãƒ, 23 no.Ãƒ, 4, filed from the original in 2016-08-29 , retrieved 2016-08-29

'Style' defined for cs1 is to use a full stop between citation elements compared to commas for cs2. Since each citation element in cs1 is essentially a new sentence, the static text of the element is capitalized. Since cs2 is a single sentence, the static text is not capitalized.

- Trappist monk (talk) 15:04, 29 August 2016 (UTC)

Except that "p." and "pp." not capitalized when used, so I do not buy the "separate" sentence argument. Why is the volume not terminated by periods when the problem and page number?

"Title". Magazine . Vol.Ãƒ, 23 no.Ãƒ, 4. p. 6. Archived from the original in 2016-08-29 . Retrieved 2016-08-29 .

I think it would be better to be a little more consistent here, and strangely MLA shows a little better way forward. ImzadiÃƒ, 1979 Ãƒ, -> 15:36, August 29, 2016 (UTC)

Do p. and have ever capitalized outside Wikipedia? I do not think that both have been capitalized in cs1 | 2. 'Vol.' has recently been available. The thing I noticed about your example is the separator character following the issue number. If there is no separating character between volume and issue, should there be a separating character between the problem and the page?

- Trappist monk (talk) 10:03, August 30, 2016 (UTC)

mla in quoting the news

Mengadaptasi {{berita mengutip}} untuk menggunakan mla:

Penulis; Author2; Author3 (3 September 2016). "Judul". Surat kabar . Volume (Masalah). pp.Ãƒâ€š D12 Ãƒâ€š - cs1 hidup

Penulis; Author2; Author3 (3 September 2016). "Judul". Surat kabar . Volume (Masalah). pp.Ãƒâ€š D12 . Ãƒâ€š - cs1 sandbox

Penulis; Author2; Author3 (3 September 2016). "Judul". Surat kabar . Volume (Masalah). pp.Ãƒâ€š D12 .

- Flowing monks (talk) 10:33, 3 September 2016 (UTC)

I did not do it right. When the mla version {{cite news}} (and {{cite journal}} and {{cite web}} ) does not have | author = , the title will not be displayed. It has been fixed.

without authors; with editor: Editor; Editor2; Editor3, eds. (September 3, 2016). "Title". Newspapers . Volume (Problem). pp.Ãƒ, D12. CS1 maint: Additional text: editor list (link) - cs1 directly; Editor; Editor2; Editor3, eds. (September 3, 2016). "Title". Newspapers . Volume (Problem). pp.Ãƒ, D12. CS1 maint: Additional text: editor list (link) - cs1 sandbox; Editor; Editor2; Editor3, eds. (September 3, 2016). "Title". Newspapers . Volume (Problem). pp.Ãƒ, D12. CS1 maint: Additional text: editor list (link)

without author or editor: "Title". Newspapers . Volume (Problem). September 3, 2016. pp.Ãƒ, D12. - cs1 directly; "Title". Newspapers . Volume (Problem). September 3, 2016. pp.Ãƒ, D12. Ãƒ, - cs1 sandbox; "Title". Newspapers . Volume (Problem). September 3, 2016. pp.Ãƒ, D12.

- Removing the monk (talk) 11:02, 8 September 2016 (UTC)

Maps Help talk:Citation Style 1/Archive 24

BioRxiv Support

bioRxiv, similar to arxiv, is a preprint repository for biology. They do not have any specific identifiers, but they use a DOI system, which is not the same as the published version of DOI. I propose we add support for Biorxiv as an identifier

Option 1

| biorxiv = 047720 -> bioRxiv 047720
| biorxiv = 10.1001/047720 -> bioRxiv 047720

eg Luallen, Robert J.; et al. (June 30, 2016). "Discovery of Natural Microsporidian Pathogens with Tropical Networks Extensive in Eleanorhabditis elegans". PLOS Pathogens . 12 (6): e1005724. bioRxiv 047720. doi: 10.1371/journal.ppat.1005724.

Option 2

| biorxiv = 047720 -> bioRxiv 10.1101/047720
| biorxiv = 10.1001/047720 -> bioRxiv 10.1101/047720

Here is a sample quote provided by the sandbox. This rendering uses | biorxiv = 047720 which is the simplest form and should work for all as long as the prefix remains 10.1101/. If that changes, then this scheme will stop functioning.

Luallen, Robert J.; et al. (June 30, 2016). "Discovery of Natural Microsporidian Pathogens with Tropical Networks Extensive in Eleanorhabditis elegans". PLOS Pathogens . 12 (6): e1005724. bioRxivÃƒ, 047720 . doi: 10.1371/journal.ppat.1005724. Ãƒ,

- Translates bhikkhus (talk) 12:20, 8 September 2016 (UTC)

Should/support both 047720 and 10.1101/047720 as inputs? Headbomb {talk/contribs/physics/books} 12:27, 8 September 2016 (UTC)

As I wrote in my post, the sandbox does not support the doi form. Should it? I do not think so. If the editor wants to use the doi form, there is | doi = .

- Trappist monk (talk) 14:57, 8 September 2016 (UTC)

Just throw it there as an idea. The output will be the same (truncated) in all cases though. Headbomb {talk/contribs/physics/books} 15:50, 8 September 2016 (UTC)

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Polish law quotes

I've created a {{Cite Polish Law}} wrapper for {{Cite web}}, but have | volume = and | number = parameters, which I paste temporarily into the parameter | website = . Is there a better solution? Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy edits 11:58, September 7, 2016 (UTC)

I have solved it by making it wrap {{Excerpt}}, instead. Please let me know if my edits can be improved further. Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy edits 12:09, September 7, 2016 (UTC)

Technically, but AFAIK, {{citation}} is Quotation 2, not CS1, so your wrapping template is not accurate enough. Keep up the brave work. - Jonesey95 (talk) 13:59, September 7, 2016 (UTC)

Why not use quoting journal instead of quoting web? Headbomb {talk/contribs/physics/books} 15:01, September 7, 2016 (UTC)

Someone has reverted your changes but left the documentation inconsistent. Before I realized that I made a sandbox and testcase to experiment with using the mode parameters, but so far it has not functioned as I expected. I have not touched the template directly. --Mirokado (talk) 22:00, 7 September 2016 (UTC)

Thank you to all of you. I've made it wrap {{Cite journal}}, instead. Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy edits 11:31, September 8, 2016 (UTC)

I have been returned, again, apparently because the template does not match "Polish legal format". I am not aware that we are subject to Polish law. It would be interesting to review the internal consistency of the citations in the article using the template. Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy edits 19:03, 13 September 2016 (UTC)

Template bahasa

Side problem: I understand now why this part of my editing was made, but how else can we show non-English titles? (Unlike | language = of the target page.) Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy edits 12:11, September 8, 2016 (UTC)

We have discussed | title-lang = es / | title-es = in the past, comes from a discussion on feature requests for it. Besides: I doubt there will be support for displaying the title language, because it's really just for the quote. --Izno (talk) 12:32, 8 September 2016 (UTC)

This is not about displaying the title language (I use "show" is not correct, sorry), but mark it correctly. For example, {{lang | pl | Twoje zdrowie!}} is displayed as a Twoje zdrowie! and emits HTML: & lt; span xml: lang = "pl" lang = "pl" & gt; Twoje zdrowie! & lt;/span & gt; . Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy edits 19:10, 8 September 2016 (UTC)

Then you might want to review the archive discussion; the contributor does want this function, but a) split on the parameter set and b) per the Html 5 specification, by specifying only lang and not xml: lang eg < lt; span lang = "pl" & gt; Two weeks zdrowie! & lt;/ span & gt; . --Izno (talk) 19:50, 8 September 2016 (UTC)

ACT UP Archives | Archiving the history of ACT UP San Francisco

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Increase the semantics of the HTML citation element

Quote

Given the following wiki markup as an example:

 {{Cite web | url = https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202944 | title = TCP and UDP ports used by Apple software products | date = 2014-11-08 | website = Apple Support | publication-date = 2016-02-05 | archive-url = https://web.archive.org/web/20160913023842/https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202944 | archive-date = 2016 -09-13 | dead-url = no | access-date = 2016-09-13}}

produces output similar to this:

 & lt; cite class = "web citations" & gt; & lt; a rel = "nofollow" class = "external text" href = "https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202944" & gt; "TCP and UDP ports used by Apple software products" & lt;/a & gt;. & lt; i & gt; Apple Support & lt;/i & gt; (published 2016-02-05). 2014-11-08. & lt; a rel = "nofollow" class = "external text" href = "https://web.archive.org/web/20160913023842/https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202944" & gt; Archived & lt;/a & gt; from the original in 2016-09-13 & lt; span class = "reference-accessdate" & gt;. Retrieved & lt; span class = "nowrap" & gt; 2016-09-13 & lt;/span & gt; & lt;/span & gt ;. & Lt;/cite & gt;

My concern is that the HTML quote element ( & lt; cite & gt; ) is wrapped around the entire template. The WHATWG HTML Standard says in section 4.5.6 that The person's name is not the title of a work and and therefore the element should not be used to markup people's names. Further examples are given in that section for correct use according to that specification. The HTML5 specification published by W3C (developed by WHATWG, but later diverged by the W3C) makes it possible to use names as quotes, but I'm sure most examples point to very specific quotation directions based on work names ( in our case, | title = ).

The correct output should look like this (untried, I remember you):

 & lt; p class = "web citations" & gt; & lt; a rel = "nofollow" class = "external text" href = "https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202944" & gt; "& lt; Quote & gt; TCP and UDP ports used by Apple software products & lt;/cite & gt;" & lt;/a & gt;. & lt; i & gt; Apple Support & lt;/i & gt; (published 2016-02-05). 2014-11-08. & lt; a rel = "nofollow" class = "external text" href = "https://web.archive.org/web/20160913023842/https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202944" & gt; Archived & lt;/a & gt; from the original in 2016-09-13 & lt; span class = "reference-accessdate" & gt;. Retrieved & lt; span class = "nowrap" & gt; 2016-09-13 & lt;/span & gt; & lt;/p & gt ;.

Time

It may be a good idea to change & lt; span & gt; for date elements to & lt; time & gt; as well, to further enhance semantics. I also question whether the quotes " should be around the & lt; cite & gt; element, as if they were for visual views only then they should be added in CSS.

My view is biased against WHATWG as the current HTML status as the right thing to do , because updating to the WHATWG specification will meet W3C HTML5 and WHATWG HTML Standard . The current template does not allow the HTML standard requirement to be satisfactory.

References

80.221.159.67 (talk) 11:50, 13 September 2016 (UTC)

Discussions

We change quotes deliberately to use quotes per Help_talk: Citation_Style_1/Archive_8 # HTML5 feed-and-switch: Elements cite again. Please review the discussion. --Izno (talk) 12:40, 13 September 2016 (UTC)

And the related discussion is here at MediaWiki_talk: Common.css/Archive_17 # The_cite_element_needs_to_not_auto-italicize_any_longer. --Izno (talk) 12:43, 13 September 2016 (UTC)

And finally, the actual implementation discussion in Help_talk: Citation_Style_1/Archive_9 # & lt; cite & gt; has been fixed, so now we can use it for all quotes. --Izno (talk) 12:46, 13 September 2016 (UTC)

Regarding styles (problems with quotation marks), we have failed to use quotes to not-italicize on the basis of problems that sometimes quotes provide only job representatives and sub-section titles. The long works are in italics while the sub-level of work usually uses quotation marks. So I believe there will be no consensus (even if it makes sense to change

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